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Derecho
11-03-2010, 08:14 PM
Windsor-Essex County tornado warning solution elusive

Siren system still being studied

By Gary Rennie, The Windsor Star October 22, 2010

When it comes to getting tornado warnings around here, you're basically on your own.

Three months after the tornado that caused millions of dollars of damage in Leamington, Kingsville and Harrow, municipal officials haven't come up with any definite ways to fill the gaps in current weather warning systems.

Developing an outdoor siren system is still being studied, emergency management co-ordinator Phil Berthiaume told county council Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Windsor+Essex+County+tornado+warning+solution+elusive/3708911/story.html#ixzz14Gn35acB

NiagaraStormChaser
11-07-2010, 01:44 AM
I am in the Niagara Falls as a Extreme Weather team of the Weather network. We had over 4 tornados. I started up a group on facebook to have tornado sirens in Ontario and the Falls We must do something and make this mandatory for all cities to have so and have a small group taking notes on active and severe weather with tornadoes and so much, Please join my group. We should approach ontario government and environment canada

Derecho
11-07-2010, 03:08 PM
I am in the Niagara Falls as a Extreme Weather team of the Weather network. We had over 4 tornados. I started up a group on facebook to have tornado sirens in Ontario and the Falls We must do something and make this mandatory for all cities to have so and have a small group taking notes on active and severe weather with tornadoes and so much, Please join my group. We should approach ontario government and environment canada

Could you please provide a link?

DarkSky
11-07-2010, 11:01 PM
I am in the Niagara Falls as a Extreme Weather team of the Weather network. We had over 4 tornados. I started up a group on facebook to have tornado sirens in Ontario and the Falls We must do something and make this mandatory for all cities to have so and have a small group taking notes on active and severe weather with tornadoes and so much, Please join my group. We should approach ontario government and environment canada

I've been saying it for years - it will never work. 95% of tornado warnings are false alerts. 1: you'd have OUTRAGED citizens that the sirens are going off in the middle of the night and no tornado happens, and 2: people would eventually start ignoring them (well, they're so loud they couldn't ignore them, but they'd ignore heeding the warning).

Before any siren installations started happening, EC would have to get at LEAST down to a ratio of 1 tornado for every, say, 4 warnings. And with their limited equipment and manpower, that will never happen.

If somehow they held back on using the sirens until there was a CONFIRMED tornado on the ground, I say sure - it would be an awesome alert to danger. But if they just started setting them off every time EC released a tornado warning for a city, it would backfire HUGELY.

Derecho
11-08-2010, 12:39 PM
I've been saying it for years - it will never work. 95% of tornado warnings are false alerts. 1: you'd have OUTRAGED citizens that the sirens are going off in the middle of the night and no tornado happens, and 2: people would eventually start ignoring them (well, they're so loud they couldn't ignore them, but they'd ignore heeding the warning).

Before any siren installations started happening, EC would have to get at LEAST down to a ratio of 1 tornado for every, say, 4 warnings. And with their limited equipment and manpower, that will never happen.

If somehow they held back on using the sirens until there was a CONFIRMED tornado on the ground, I say sure - it would be an awesome alert to danger. But if they just started setting them off every time EC released a tornado warning for a city, it would backfire HUGELY.

From what I've gathered this year from Essex County residents and officials, they rely heavily on the NWS in Detroit and Detroit news stations for their information because they feel as though Environment Canada has forgotten extreme southwest Ontario. Even Detroit television stations broadcast information for SW Ontario during severe weather events. So, I'd imagine if Wayne County, Michigan sounded their sirens, then Essex County officials would trigger theirs, too.

Environment Canada is not the only weather service that issues far to many false tornado warnings. Some NWS offices are very tornado warning trigger happy. A good example is the NWS in Huntsville, Alabama. On October 26 they issued 52 tornado warnings for their 14 county micro-CWA that evening, ultimately confirming only four weak tornadoes. Several cities were under tornado warnings for five hours straight.

Or look at the NWS in Bismarck, North Dakota. They have issued a record number of severe weather warnings this year covering 1341 counties in their CWA. This includes 93 tornado warnings covering 196 counties. 54 tornadoes have been confirmed in North Dakota in 2010, with about 20 of those in the Bismarck CWA.

If we were using NWS standards, Environment Canada doesn't issue enough tornado warnings.

DarkSky
11-08-2010, 02:01 PM
From what I've gathered this year from Essex County residents and officials, they rely heavily on the NWS in Detroit and Detroit news stations for their information because they feel as though Environment Canada has forgotten extreme southwest Ontario. Even Detroit television stations broadcast information for SW Ontario during severe weather events. So, I'd imagine if Wayne County, Michigan sounded their sirens, then Essex County officials would trigger theirs, too.

Environment Canada is not the only weather service that issues far to many false tornado warnings. Some NWS offices are very tornado warning trigger happy. A good example is the NWS in Huntsville, Alabama. On October 26 they issued 52 tornado warnings for their 14 county micro-CWA that evening, ultimately confirming only four weak tornadoes. Several cities were under tornado warnings for five hours straight.

Or look at the NWS in Bismarck, North Dakota. They have issued a record number of severe weather warnings this year covering 1341 counties in their CWA. This includes 93 tornado warnings covering 196 counties. 54 tornadoes have been confirmed in North Dakota in 2010, with about 20 of those in the Bismarck CWA.

If we were using NWS standards, Environment Canada doesn't issue enough tornado warnings.

Hehe, just because someone else is doing a bad job, doesn't mean we're doing a good one :)

If EC over alerts and the tornado sirens are blaring all the time with no tornado, saying it's just as bad south of the border isn't going to make it any better up here for the people pee'd off at the tornado sirens. I'm sure someone in Essex county being woken up in the middle of the night a dozen times during the summer, only to have no tornado at all, isn't going to be comforted by the fact that the people in Alabama are experiencing the same problems :rolleyes: :p

Derecho
11-09-2010, 01:49 AM
Hehe, just because someone else is doing a bad job, doesn't mean we're doing a good one :)

If EC over alerts and the tornado sirens are blaring all the time with no tornado, saying it's just as bad south of the border isn't going to make it any better up here for the people pee'd off at the tornado sirens. I'm sure someone in Essex county being woken up in the middle of the night a dozen times during the summer, only to have no tornado at all, isn't going to be comforted by the fact that the people in Alabama are experiencing the same problems :rolleyes: :p

Well, at least in Alabama they get 'doppler radar indicated a severe thunderstorm capable of producing a tornado' which means there is a real unconfirmed threat. Whereas with EC, it's 'hey six million people, radar indicates the real possibility of a tornado signature with damaging winds to 100kmh and hail up to 2cm in diameter. Also, this storm could contain 50mm of rain and the likelihood of dangerous lightning'.

The tornado threat becomes lost and out of focus.